V/UHF Simplex

[KJ4KTW]

Does anybody out there routinely monitor the VHF/UHF simplex/calling channels?  I routinely monitor (or at least have active in my scan banks) 146.520, 223.500, 446.000, and 927.600 and I only ever hear anyone on 146.520 and even that is rare outside of a couple of local guys that I talk to fairly often.

I ask, because if nobody is listening to them then I will remove them from my radio banks and ignore them.  I routinely monitor a whole slew of simplex channels including MARS and APRS.  Am I alone?

[W9WLS]

Well, your not exactly alone.
I monitor 146.520 and 446.000 here and when on the road.
Squak ID every once in a while when traveling but rarely get a response.
There are several that I know who live in proximity to Interstate Hwy 64 between Louisville and St.Louis who routinely monitor the simplex frequency's in case someone needs help but aside from very little locale traffic do not hear much else.

[KN3ICK]

Here in Southern California it the same thing! If you do hear someone on lets say 146.520 they are chewing the rag for hours at a time when, they should move there conversation to another simplex frequency. Most conversation these days are on the High Level or Low Level linked repeaters.

[KJ4KTW]

It would be nice if more Hams monitored the simplex channels.  It makes it much easier for the traveling Ham to find someone to talk to when on the road.  I have some friends who have HF rigs in their mobiles and will monitor a MARS frequency or two and check in to various nets as they travel. 

Without extensive local area knowledge, it's hard to decide what repeater to attempt a call out on as many repeaters are either ignored or simply aren't on the air anymore yet still appear in the book or on search results.  Additionally, links like the SW Lynx and Saltgrass Link in Texas are very dynamic and are constantly changing with nobody putting the new information out there for folks that may want to utilize those links. 

Since I made my original post, I've gone active on APRS.  I'm hoping this helps as most mobiles with APRS are desiring the same results as I am.

[N3PBD]

I agree completely!!!  I thought 146.520 was supposed to be a calling frequency.  That does no good if no one is listening!  When traveling I always keep my VHF on .52 and never hear a thing.  Also, it is almost impossible to set or determine a PL while driving. (I have an older model radio in the car)  Thanks for the post!

[W9WLS]

Well, here I go stirring the pot again!

I happen to be one of what seems to be the very few that believe there should be some "truly Open" (NOT-TONED) repeaters, especially those that have a large foot print and / or have interstate highway coverage (not necessarily the linked systems) or that the "TONE" should be a part of the "ID'er message" at least.
Or that a standard tone should be established for systems with interstate highway coverage (one or two standard tones for East-West routes and another for North-South routes) .

And YES, I do understand that repeater owners/clubs toned to minimize "INTERFERENCE" whether from band openings or other repeaters or ambient noise or what ever other excuse could be thought of at the time.
The above would of course take a good deal of interaction between the "COORDINATORS" both on the state level and interstate level (something that doesn't seem to happen very smoothly) and an effort between repeater owners/clubs (something else that doesn't happen often) .

Well, theres my "Soap Box" for the morning , I could go a lot further on this subject and I'm sure there are a lot of arguments out there both good and not so good , but think about it a bit .

73, John

[kc8qmu]

If you want to find simplex ops in your area, you more often than not have to check the other simplex freqs, not just the calling frequencies....... many ops that operate day to day operate elsewhere within the simplex segments so they dont tie up the calling freqs...... personally I scan the calling frequencies of 52.525,146.52, and 446, along with a few other locally used 2m simplex freqs. 

[W9WLS]

If you want to find simplex ops in your area, you more often than not have to check the other simplex freqs, not just the calling frequencies....... many ops that operate day to day operate elsewhere within the simplex segments so they dont tie up the calling freqs...... personally I scan the calling frequencies of 52.525,146.52, and 446, along with a few other locally used 2m simplex freqs. 

Think you might have missed the point there Chris !
Please go back and read the starting post.
It's not just about finding people on the simplex frequency's.
It's more about if anyone actually monitors/uses the designated calling frequencies !
 

[n9zas]

I personally prefer to monitor on simplex frequencies and still do.
It beats listening to all the "speak n spell" and fisherprice repeaters around here!
10 years ago all they did was cwid now it's time,temp, location and by this time next year probably your blood pressure!  >

73,
n9zas

[KJ4KTW]

Over the past few weeks, a group I'm a part of in my locality started holding weekly nets on a simplex 2m frequency.  Someone mentioned the other night "Why don't we utilize this frequency more?"  Some of the newer Hams thought that simplex wouldn't get much range.  They were very surprised to hear myself and a couple other of the more senior guys holding simplex QSOs for a radius of dozens of miles.  Since then, there's about a half dozen of us that are very active on that one frequency and I've had an absolute blast being on simplex frequencies.  Something about it seems a bit liberating, I guess. 

On top of that, with the incredibly high number of unused repeaters in this area, it's a way to actually get people talking again!

[WD3D]

Why don't we use simplex?  because when we use repeaters we eliminate the fade generally associated with mobile use of UHF and VHF amateur frequencies.

All effective communications is Line of Sight.
When you put anything in between the transmit and the receive you can block the signal, unless the signal has something for it to bounce off of.

Repeaters by nature should be built in the highest location - so that you take advantage of the natural ability to hear each person, repeat the information so everyone can hear you.
UHF and VHF is usually used for mobile use and local, where antenna's are easier to deploy then HF frequencies.  Repeaters were never intended to be used much further then 20 miles( low profile) , because their use was designed for the local community / not to tie up one frequency for half a state...

Back in the day when everyone wanted to use the repeaters and you couldn't find a quiet place to talk.  Simplex allowed you to talk with your buddies and not tie up the repeaters.

Repeaters were designed for emergency use - and if you tied up the repeater, a person had to break your conversation to be allowed to use it for emergency purposes - which is a bad thing to tie up a repeater if you don't have to.

Unfortunately about 20 years ago, cell phones came on the scene here, and since then, no one uses the repeaters anymore and the ones that used Simplex so everyone wouldn't hear them talking like they were still on the 11 meters - refused to use the repeaters because they didn't want everyone to hear them talking like they wern't hams - because they never learned the proper way to operate and they refused to use their call signs and conform to the rules.

Why doesn't everyone monitor 146.520?
That is an easy one.
We introduced a new generation of amateurs - we call them LIGHT ( No Code ) - because they did not have to learn code and they were not restricted to certain bands and frequencies, they were not forced to buy equipment or put up antenna's or keep a log book or operate.

ANY ONE CAN GET A LICENSE TODAY,  HAVING NEVER EVEN picked up a microphone or OPERATED A RADIO BEFORE, and CAN HOLD A AMATEUR EXTRA LICENSE.

Because of this, along with the cell phone, we have generated a whole generation of know nothing hams who doesn't buy transceivers and antenna's and power supplies and feed line.
They buy a WALKIE TALKIE!
Why?  - well because it is cheap, you can get a cheap one for less then $50.00
It is small - no one will object to you carrying one around in your shirt pocket.
It has no external antenna - hence it doesn't clutter up the sky around your house or the roof on your vehicle.
It might be able to hit the one or two local repeaters, which is good enough for that person because they were not planning on operating it anyways and they tend to throw it in a drawer, and when they need it the batteries are dead anyways.   So they are not REAL HAMS, and they do not operate

You take this person that doesn't want to kill their batteries and you tell them that they can listen to the same thing by programming in those frequencies into their home or mobile VHF / UHF scanner and we now turn them into a group of listeners instead of operators.

Eventually the family gets disgusted with having to listen to repeaters identify once every 10 minutes with no one talking, or the local yo yo's hanging out on the simplex, or the linked repeater system with some hillbilly local yokle from down south or out west yacking it up and talking like he and Jeff Foxworthy were brothers and they get tired of it and they just delete the frequency from their scanner or they turn their scanner off, which leaves no one monitoring the frequencies anymore

With modern day GPS and cell phones, WIFI, the internet, lap top computers and all that other junk, no one needs to call to ask for directions or help anymore - hence 520 isn't utilitized.

I was driving down through New York state one day and was trying to demonstrate amateur radio. Somewhere around Oswego NY there was a man and a woman who was yucking it up on 520 simplex and they were getting sexual in their conversation and were not using their call signs.

When I asked them to please identify - they refused and got quiet for a couple of minutes.
Probably thinking that sooner or later I would just fall out of range and they could continue their conversation.

Because it was so flat up there around the fingerlakes - 40 miles later, I could still hear them yucking it up on the 520...  520 is a calling frequency.....

Technicially as others has said, it is not supposted to be used as a general use frequency - but because these people were not real hams anyways - no one ever told them that what they were doing was illegal and that they should go back to the cell phones where they belonged.

IT just goes to show that there were no REAL HAMS up around OSWEGO NY....

[WB5TKA]

Many years ago I carried a 2 m. mobile transceiver and a mag. mount antenna with me when I traveled for business.  Plug the radio into the rental car accessory socket and stick the mag mount on the roof and drive for three or so hours to my destination.  I tried .52 simplex and rarely encountered anyone there.  I did manage to raise someone now and then on some repeater I might be able to bring up.  Sometimes that resulted in an enjoyable chat but other times the response I got was, well, if I needed directions they'd be happy to help but since that was not what I was looking for the result was a very short contact.  I finally quit taking the radio with me.

I used to have a 2 m. vertical up here but took it down.  I don't operate repeaters and as I haven't done any mobile hamming in quite a few years, any activity up in the higher regions is limited to 6 meters.  Eventually I will put up something to allow operation in the SSB/CW portions of 2 m.  Right now, it's 6 only.  I have recently re-installed my 6 m. homemade Ringo which now allows me to operate on the FM portion of that band.  I keep the 6 m. radio sitting on 52.525.  Two reasons.   Local activity which is not a lot but now and then someone will be there.  Secondly, it's a good monitor for band openings and keeps me from having to keep my HF + 6 transceiver tied up on only one band.

There are pros and cons to sticking on the calling frequency.  Sure, during busy activity periods it can keep a monopoly going but other than that, it can also be a good indicator to people passing through or just coming on that yes indeed there are real people around and available to talk to.  For something like 52.525 where activity is very low, it's probably not a problem to start and continue a QSO right there on the frequency.

Dan, WB5TKA

[WD3D]

The world has changed - WB
30 years ago, when there were not many personal computers, when there was no WWW when there was no cell phones - we played sports.
Baseball, basketball, football, hockey - what ever.
Even cable tv did not have much to offer except MTV or maybe porn if you had one of those large c band type dishes in your yard.

The only competition was watching sports, or watching television.
There were not a lot of hams, and the hams there was, was hams because they wanted to be hams
They took tests and they earned their license and they operated because they had to.
Once they got what they wanted - which was a legal quiet place to talk, without having to freeband - they forgot all about the next generation.

There was a whole generation between the wet bottoms like yourself and the KA's and KB's that came along after them that did not understand what amateur radio was truely all about.
All they heard was a bunch of old guys sitting there yucking it up like they were still on the CB radio, with their nets and their 80 and 160 meter garbage and many people got turned off by all of that.   The two meters was no better with the old and new hams sitting there camping out on a frequency with nothing to do.. Talking about the same things over and over again about how great everything was 20 or 30 years ago when they had good jobs, made good money, and were somebody.

Today people are just too busy to sit and talk on the radio.
You might have the morning drive, where a couple of people gets together.
The afternoon drive home from work.   The evening rag chew - if they don't have an antenna and wants to use the repeater like a telephone.  Since most clubs are no longer active, that is about all that amateur radio has to offer.
The more traditional clubs has a once a week net, usually on a Sunday or Monday night...
One club here even does it on Saturday nights at 9 PM, but it is hard to get anyone other then the regular group of people to join the net.   Everyone is too busy on Saturday nights to join a net, with family and friends and television programs and catching up on everything they couldn't do during the week while they were at work.

Without a good Elmer program, this is about all that we are going to have.

Occassionally you will have one person per each county that might listen to 52 - if their scanner actually stops there when you throw out your call sign.. But no one is going to come back to you if no one has their transceivers turned on.
And, as more and more government agencies goes digital, the analog scanners will be turned off and no one will be listening.

I don't even know how many repeaters still has an autopatch, but my guess is less then 1%
Most of them were put up on towers years ago and forgotten, and no one maintains them unless there is a problem.   One guy down in Pittsburgh PA who was the president of the repeater council, had his repeater running for 3 months and he didn't even have a valid call sign - because his license had expired.   Even when he found out he did not have a license anymore, he didn't shut off his repeater, because there is no one to enforce the rules anymore, except for the most severe violators - usually the ones who interferes with public service frequencies.

It all starts with YOU!
You have to be the one to be an example for everyone else.
Have everyone program it into their transceiver and have everyone turn their transceiver on scan, and not be stuck on the one home channel, using the radio like a telephone.

Until more people stands up and tells the new hams that what they are doing is wrong, and gets them to change, it is only going to get worse, not better!
We got to get away from the repeaters and the walkie talkies - PERIOD!
It doesn't make us GOOD HAMS!
It just allows us to squawk to one another as long as we can hit the one local repeater...
And, it isn't just the new hams that are doing this!
The old hams are even more guilty, because they tend to be CHEAP in their old age!

[KD8OSD]

Why don't we use simplex?  because when we use repeaters we eliminate the fade generally associated with mobile use of UHF and VHF amateur frequencies.

All effective communications is Line of Sight.
When you put anything in between the transmit and the receive you can block the signal, unless the signal has something for it to bounce off of.

Repeaters by nature should be built in the highest location - so that you take advantage of the natural ability to hear each person, repeat the information so everyone can hear you.
UHF and VHF is usually used for mobile use and local, where antenna's are easier to deploy then HF frequencies.  Repeaters were never intended to be used much further then 20 miles( low profile) , because their use was designed for the local community / not to tie up one frequency for half a state...

Back in the day when everyone wanted to use the repeaters and you couldn't find a quiet place to talk.  Simplex allowed you to talk with your buddies and not tie up the repeaters.

Repeaters were designed for emergency use - and if you tied up the repeater, a person had to break your conversation to be allowed to use it for emergency purposes - which is a bad thing to tie up a repeater if you don't have to.

Unfortunately about 20 years ago, cell phones came on the scene here, and since then, no one uses the repeaters anymore and the ones that used Simplex so everyone wouldn't hear them talking like they were still on the 11 meters - refused to use the repeaters because they didn't want everyone to hear them talking like they wern't hams - because they never learned the proper way to operate and they refused to use their call signs and conform to the rules.

Why doesn't everyone monitor 146.520?
That is an easy one.
We introduced a new generation of amateurs - we call them LIGHT ( No Code ) - because they did not have to learn code and they were not restricted to certain bands and frequencies, they were not forced to buy equipment or put up antenna's or keep a log book or operate.

ANY ONE CAN GET A LICENSE TODAY,  HAVING NEVER EVEN picked up a microphone or OPERATED A RADIO BEFORE, and CAN HOLD A AMATEUR EXTRA LICENSE.

Because of this, along with the cell phone, we have generated a whole generation of know nothing hams who doesn't buy transceivers and antenna's and power supplies and feed line.
They buy a WALKIE TALKIE!
Why?  - well because it is cheap, you can get a cheap one for less then $50.00
It is small - no one will object to you carrying one around in your shirt pocket.
It has no external antenna - hence it doesn't clutter up the sky around your house or the roof on your vehicle.
It might be able to hit the one or two local repeaters, which is good enough for that person because they were not planning on operating it anyways and they tend to throw it in a drawer, and when they need it the batteries are dead anyways.   So they are not REAL HAMS, and they do not operate

You take this person that doesn't want to kill their batteries and you tell them that they can listen to the same thing by programming in those frequencies into their home or mobile VHF / UHF scanner and we now turn them into a group of listeners instead of operators.

Eventually the family gets disgusted with having to listen to repeaters identify once every 10 minutes with no one talking, or the local yo yo's hanging out on the simplex, or the linked repeater system with some hillbilly local yokle from down south or out west yacking it up and talking like he and Jeff Foxworthy were brothers and they get tired of it and they just delete the frequency from their scanner or they turn their scanner off, which leaves no one monitoring the frequencies anymore

With modern day GPS and cell phones, WIFI, the internet, lap top computers and all that other junk, no one needs to call to ask for directions or help anymore - hence 520 isn't utilitized.

I was driving down through New York state one day and was trying to demonstrate amateur radio. Somewhere around Oswego NY there was a man and a woman who was yucking it up on 520 simplex and they were getting sexual in their conversation and were not using their call signs.

When I asked them to please identify - they refused and got quiet for a couple of minutes.
Probably thinking that sooner or later I would just fall out of range and they could continue their conversation.

Because it was so flat up there around the fingerlakes - 40 miles later, I could still hear them yucking it up on the 520...  520 is a calling frequency.....

Technicially as others has said, it is not supposted to be used as a general use frequency - but because these people were not real hams anyways - no one ever told them that what they were doing was illegal and that they should go back to the cell phones where they belonged.

IT just goes to show that there were no REAL HAMS up around OSWEGO NY....

Do you EVER have anything good to say.....about anything.....anyone?

Just like everywhere else you go KnightKit, you end up being an ASS!

[WQ1C]

As for me, I'm about to pull out my police scanner and enter in all the usual simplex frequencies, along with a few other things for my enjoyment. I should start monitoring the locals around here after a very long absence from the VHF-UHF arena.

@ WD3D - Gee, sir; I would hope that you decide to redefine what a REAL HAM is? Many people have their ideas on that topic, and they don't necessarily agree with yours.